framing estimating

[ITE]

Does anyone charge for extras when determining framing costs? And what would an extra be? Simple things like doors and windows or more complex designs and structures?

[rabadger]

If it is considered an extra service besides doing just the design, Charge by the hour. Once you get good and fast you may be able to establish a square foot price.

[Rich]

ACK!!!!! No such thing as a square foot price in framing (or anything for that matter) :)
Consider this - the difference between a Frank Lloyd Wright home and Frank Gehry home. Wright believed in small rooms (increasing the number of walls) and Gehry has more open plans (less walls). One might be $4 / sf and the other $13 / sf.
Anyway - IMO you're better off to figure all the pieces to build whatever it is you're building. An actual piece count will get you much more accurate. You'll then need to do some soul searching to guess at what your production rate is. Multiply that by your quantity and burdened wage rate. Add in your profit and overhead markups and you'll have an idea of what it will cost. Of course - you only truly know what it costs at the end of the project - but you'll be able to get closer and closer the more you do it.

[ITE]

I guess my question didnt come out like I was thinking. :oops: I completely agree with you Rich. What I was wondering is on top of figuring up cost by the piece, do you add an additional charge just because there is a door in the wall or a window? in a way it sounds like double jeopardy. I heard of a couple guys doing this and was wondering if it was more common than I have heard.

[Rich]

You can add on cost for it to start with. But after awhile you should have a good idea what an average cost / lf for framing a wall is - including windows, doors, offsets, etc. IE - your pricing will include it automatically. The more you do the more accurate it'll be.
My personal opinion is that no - do not add on.

[rabadger]

Rich, I hope I did not scare you away :oops:

When I said square foot price I was thinking about the extra charge to perform the estimate. Not the actual cost of materials and labor. This would be an service so the owner does not have to make the material list and send it to the suppliers for bids.

If ITE spends 8 hours doing it for the customer ITE should be charging for it.

Square foot framings pricing would be like guessing at the HVAC sizing.
The contractor would starve to death. He would either work to loose money or not work at all.

If I do looad calculations and design work for a client and they request I perpare a material list and price it. I charge 45.00 per hour for that extra service.

[ITE]

ok, just wondering about it. thanks for satisfing my curosity. :)

[Rich]

ic what you're saying Richard. IMO this cost is an overhead expense of the company. If I perform 20 estimates over the year and only get 10 of them.. who pays for the time to do the other 10 estimates? Let's take a typical estimate - depending on size of project I would say it takes a good day and a half for a base home. Not many long lead items or custom items.. etc. So figure a good 12 hours each times 10 = 120 hours. (These are fictitious btw). But wait.. I need to figure the time for all the estimates to be considered an overhead expense.. so 240 hours of estimating during the year. Divide that into a projected number of jobs I'll get and that's what I'll charge as that overhead expense per job.
That's very rough - but you get the idea.